PDF Plato î î Λάχης PDF æ

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10 thoughts on “Λάχης

  1. says:

    Earlier this year we picked up a handsome 1930 edition of Jowett's complete Plato and I recently started reading through it I was deeply unimpressed with the first two dialogues Charmides and Lysis; I'm afraid my frivolous reviews reflect my disappointment But the third one delivers Plato either using Socrates as a mouthpiece or at least according to some experts reporting his words discusses the concept of courage He constructs a dialogue between the characters to explore the themes and does a nice job of it One of the reasons I found the first two dialogues so dissatisfying was that they were barely dialogues at all; Socrates does nearly all the talking and the other players don't get to do much than agree with him and exclaim at his brilliance Here in contrast there was dramatic tension and some humorOne of the reasons I found the dialogue in Laches interesting is that courage is an idea freuently referred to by gamers Socrates is a soldier so it's natural for him to think about it I have never held a weapon in my life but chess is a war game and I have fought thousands of virtual battles sometimes for stakes high enough that I seriously cared about the outcome In most games a point comes when a crucial decision has to be made and then you find people talking about courageAs Socrates skilfully shows people think they know what courage is but as soon as you start picking at the definition you find that it's remarkably hard to separate it from other desirable ualities such as foresight balance and judgement Every chessplayer knows how difficult it is to decide what to do when you've got yourself into an inferior position You usually have to make a choice between passively defending on one hand and counter attacking on the other A beginner thinks it's obvious the coward sits and defends the brave man counter attacks But as soon as you've got a reasonable amount of experience you see that it's anything but clear Very often your opponent is bluffing He's hoping to lure you into a foolhardy counter attack and true courage consists in standing your ground and refusing to be provoked As Socrates demonstrates it's almost impossible to draw a clear line between courage and wisdomThis is like what I was expecting Next stop Protagoras

  2. says:

    Laches is Plato’s dialogue which attempts to define the virtue of courage but succeeds in doing so much As with most of the Dialogues it ends in the discovery that such nebulous concepts are nearly impossible to neatly describe to everyone’s satisfaction In this case two fathers Lysimachus and his friend Melesias want their sons to become honorable men and are trying to obtain instruction along those lines—something which they did not have themselves—despite the fact that their own fathers the young boys deceased grandfathers were legendary generals Lysimachus and Melesias reuest assistance from Laches and Nicias reputable contemporary generals seeking to discover specifically what they think of the art of fighting in armor Laches and Nicias disagree on what constitutes the ‘art of fighting’ so Lysimachus calls in Socrates to break the tie but Socrates will have none of this He insists numbers will not settle the uestion for it is a matter of expertise He says they must find out who is the expert and ask his advice If neither general fits that uality then another must be found but what Socrates means by expert is not one who is the best in the art of fighting with armor but that person expert in the soul of youth One who knows the thing called virtue; specifically only part of virtue ie—courage Both generals attempt to define courage with Socrates leading them uestion by uestion This is the best part of the dialogue so even if I have revealed this much of the plot it is still not spoiled To see Socrates in action is the real enjoyment; it is like watching a superb fencing master—in this case parrying with two friendly adversaries Immensely entertaining In conclusion I will leave you with some parting wisdom from Socrates himself ‘Every one of us should seek out the best teacher whom he can find first for ourselves who are greatly in need of one and then for the youth regardless of expense or anything But I cannot advise that we remain as we are And if any one laughs at us for going to school at our age I would uote to them the authority of Homer who says that ‘Modesty is not good for a needy man’ Let us then regardless of what may be said of us make the education of the youths our own education’

  3. says:

    Initially I felt slightly guilty adding this short book to my 2019 ‘books read’ list but I re read this book and various passages many times It’s worth noting I needed to refer to the similarly brief Sparknotes booklet to help me understand the thing In the end I spent time on this effort than my usual 400 page affair and feel it is than worthy to add to my list of books read for this yearOkay onto the layperson’s review of Laches by Plato who is considered the father of Greek and Western Philosophy Most of his work takes the form of dialogues and Laches is no different This piece involves the fathers of two sons and they’re trying to decide on how best to educate each of them in the art of fighting in armour As both Dads are not proficient at this they engage two noteworthy Generals Laches and Nicias in a discussion to help assist them to decide which one to engage to train their sons Enter the argumentative let’s not deny it Socrates to adjudicate Seems Socrates spent most of his days sauntering around Athens arguing debating probing poking and uestioning people’s logic and assumptions with the whole intent of demolishing their arguments to show they knew nothing I can imagine people running in all directions when Socrates was approaching I think it did him in in the endAnyway Socrates gave Laches two attempts at defining ‘Courage’ He finally admitted he hadn’t the slightest idea what Courage was This was followed by Nicias’ attempt this is where it got really complicated for me as Nicias tended to use forms and various abstract arguments that seemed so far removed from Courage my brain ached But in the end Socrates proved Nicias didn’t know either This presented Socrates with an incredible challenge on who best to select to teach the two boysI must say after immersing myself in this dialogue for a short but intense time I haven’t the faintest idea on how to define Courage In fact I probably am less able to do so after reading Laches than I was before – perhaps that is Socrates point I know nothingI did chuckle at this From Sparknotes “Interestingly Socrates own teacher Cratylus was so focused on his own thoughts of wisdom that he even refused to speak”Imagine thatThey must have been an interesting bunch back in 500 400 ADMuch is said about engaging one’s mind as we age in new activities such as learning an instrument or a new language to fight off the risk of dementia and other similar diseases Well trying to understand books such as this and performing the mental gymnastics reuired to figure out even the most ‘simple’ of passages certainly has the potential to keep us all mentally nimble Enjoy – I did45 stars

  4. says:

    A uestion of Bravery18 November 2019 – Echuca Well in this dialogue we have Socrates discussing with some military types what the exact meaning of bravery is and one of these military people happens to be the General Nicias of the Sicilian Disaster Expedition fame Well I would have probably recommended that they consider the Oxford English dictionary but I’m not sure that is what the purpose of this dialogue was Anyway the OED definition of bravery is ready to face or endure danger or pain Yeah that seems to be a little simplistic and I’m not sure whether that is what they are trying to get at For instance consider this I guess this is one of the things that they were trying to determine – what is bravery and what is just plain stupidity Of course we do have a number of problems with the above meme namely because we all know that penguins and polar bears don’t live in the same part of the world as each other but that aside it does help us understand what is being discussed here Of course it goes further than that to raise the uestion as to whether bravery can be taught This is of course one of the major themes that seems to run through a lot of Plato’s works and of course it comes down to us today – can we teach virtue Is it the case that there are people who are naturally timid and is it possible for them to overcome their timidity and then comes the real uestion as to when is it appropriate to stand and fight and when is it appropriate to high tail it out of there The catch is that and I know that I experienced this as I was growing up especially as a guy and that is that sometime you are enticed to do something stupid because if you don’t then you are labelled a coward This is one of those things that nobody seemed to have wanted to have attached to them which resulted in us doing lots and lots of stupid things and some of us getting into to lots of lots of trouble all under the misconception that if we didn’t then we would not be considered to be brave There is actually another catch as well namely because the scene in this dialogue is taking place in a training facility though of course we need to remember that there was no such thing as a standing army back in those days where young people would practice their fighting skills Yet as has been well documented fighting in a controlled environment and fighting in a real battle are two completely different things It is interesting that a lot of highly trained and rather intimidating people show their true colours when they suddenly find themselves at war Mind you it seems that it is that first battle that basically makes or breaks the soldier and a part of me suspects that things start to get easier from then on Yet one does not take into account the whole life or death aspect of bravery Sometimes people will do things purely due to the survival instinct What would have been a foolhardy venture has resulted in the fact that people have become almost superhuman due to not only their own lives being in danger but the lives of their family their city and even their nation There is probably that can be said of this but like a lot of Plato’s dialogues they don’t seem to actually reach a foregone conclusion unless the idea of facing danger tempered with wisdom is the conclusion that they have reached This is no doubt because the purpose of the dialogue is to set the stage for further discussion and further reflection If what Socrates says at the end is anything to go by then we all have a lot to learn about the subject

  5. says:

    Inconclusive dialogue in which Nicias claimsThat rashness and courage aren’t the same;Socrates retorts that courage isn’t knowledge Of future fear or hope as that doesn’t acknowledgeThe fears of now and pastBut who can’t define it can still show it by contrast

  6. says:

    Here is another of the inconclusive dialogues Socrates is asked by a couple of older men Lysimachus and Melesias whether to educate their sons in the art of fighting in armor Socrates characteristically shifts the theme to a abstract inuiry What is courage? Commonsense definitions—such as “to stand and fight” or “to endure”—are uickly eliminated as admitting of exceptions Nicias a well educated general then proposes that courage is a certain kind of knowledge that of future good and evil After further dialectical maneuvering the conversants find that they have gotten too general and have defined all of virtue and goodness while leaving the specific nature of courage undefined Socrates shrugs his shoulders and they break for lunchThough the uestion of courage is of somewhat limited philosophical interest I do think that Plato hits upon the oft overlooked role of knowledge or lack of knowledge in this seemingly physical or emotional virtue This is characteristic of Plato of course for whom knowledge and goodness are tightly linked Argument aside the well drawn characters of this dialogue are yet another example of Plato's talent as a dramatist

  7. says:

    God this made no fucking sense 😂 I'm so tired of Socrates bullshit

  8. says:

    SOCRATES But then Nicias courage according to this new definition of yours instead of being a part of virtue only will be all virtue ?

  9. says:

    Laches what is courage?————————————————————Socrates dunno————————————————————55

  10. says:

    Plato suggests the virtues reuire wisdom and are interconnected Courage is not rash fearlessness Perhaps it must be for a good cause